The second one was organization. The two companies are similar in many respects, but they were also very different — and the main difference was organization. WestRock was going very much into a centralization direction, with lots of responsibilities taking away from the operations — whether it's HR, finance, legal, commercial, you name it. And even production, in some cases, had people in the plants that became an administrator of the assets, if you will. The Smurfit Kappa angle was always to try and make ...